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eimarraThursday, 7 p.m. Panelists were Holly Black, Joe Haldeman, Naomi Kritzer (moderator), L.E. Modesitt Jr., and Sarah Zettel. Again, not generally direct quotes, but rather paraphrases of what each one said.
Naomi Kritzer: How do you know if you're improving? Are there useful measurements of quality?
Sarah Zettel: You stop having to pay attention to some things.
Joe Haldeman: Need to develop an input filter so don't listen to people saying you should be writing the same thing you did X years ago.
Sarah Zettel: Authors are like parrots--they're highly intelligent, have short attention spans, and will take things apart when your back is turned.
Naomi Kritzer: What about external feedback? Is it useful?
L.E. Modesitt: It can be. I'm not using as many sound effects now, or writing as much about food. You also learn how to and when to trust your subconscious.
Holly Black: A hand-picked group of readers helps--someone you can believe, someone you trust to tell you it sucks or is good.
Joe Haldeman: I don't ask my wife for criticism, but I do ask her for input. When I stop, I'll ask her, but what I write is mine. Nine times out of ten, I end up telling her why her idea won't work. The only input I care about is from the editor. "If you're a serious writer, you write for yourself."
L.E. Modesitt: No one sees what I've written before Dave Hartwell (my editor), except for parts with music, which my wife looks at. Editors are great at seeing symptoms but not so good at cause. If they say there's a problem, there is, but it may not be what the editor thinks it is.
Sarah Zettel: Have to find what works for you as an author. I've been part of a writer's group since 1994.
L.E. Modesitt: Thing to remember about critics as that their criticism reflects more of them than of you.
Joe Haldeman: For a beginning writer, any criticism leads to the feeling "Oh my god, I'm a failure!" After a couple of years, criticism tends to lead to feeling "What an asshole!"
Naomi Kritzer: I find crit group feedback to be terribly helpful, but I can't stand feedback after something's in print.
(At this point, some discussion of solitary writers versus those who prefer crit groups and whether this is a generational difference. Older writers--at least from this given sample--are more likely to be solitary.)
Naomi Kritzer: I used to have a writers' book addiction. I was looking for the magic key, and found many books that say there is one true way.
Holly Black: Writers' porn.
Joe Haldeman: Some writers can't read their own work; some do it compulsively.
Holly Black: I'm afraid to read my own work; don't want to see what it is.
Naomi Kritzer: By the end, everything sucks.
Sarah Zettel: I have to get it away because I can't deal with it anymore.
Joe Haldeman: Sooner or later, you have to set it free.
Naomi Kritzer: Is there an area where you're stretching yourself now?
L.E. Modesitt: I ask what I can do that's different, that I haven't done before, that isn't familiar to me or the readers.
Joe Haldeman: You don't want to take the path of least resistance and satirize yourself.
L.E. Modesitt: It's a problem if you get to be known for something with only some idea (love story, man learns something, James Bond/mindless adventure). You have to be careful and work harder each time to do it differently.
Sarah Zettel: I'm researching new areas, new ways, working on areas I know next to nothing about.
audience question: Do you have any problem keeping your characters fresh?
Joe Haldeman: Characters generate the story. I don't use plot or theme. I use the same templates occasionally because my characters are somewhat autobiographical, as with most writers.
L.E. Modesitt: They always have a certain amount of determination, intelligence, persistence--what do you do beyond the basics?
Sarah Zettel: Characters need to be true to the environment they're set in. They'll be changed to be true te tho character, universe, story--they have to be different.
Joe Haldeman: A character doesn't have to be a hero, positive, to come out ahead. The character just has to be interesting enough to make the reader keep turning the pages until they get to the end--and then you've won.
Holly Black: The more comfortable we are with things as authors, the more we want to play with them, poke them, prod them. Sometimes, you may do something that's not in line with your readers.
Sarah Zettel: First you learn shading, lighting, brushstrokes on canvas--sublimated, now free to work with the subtler aspects. Sheer experience is one way to get better.
I never know what's coming next. Ideas are garnered from everywhere. When it comes, the idea will tell me how it needs to be written, and sometimes I don't feel up to it.
Joe Haldeman: Fitzgerald and Hemingway decided to become serious writers and went bankrupt.
L.E. Modesitt: I started out as a poet, then moved to SF for 20 years. So, yes, you can change.
question: Have you ever broken rules and decided "oh, it's there for a reason"?
L.E. Modesitt: The Spellsong series. It sold really well in romance, but in romance novel, you don't have an unhappy break.
Joe Haldeman: Every genre has a set of reading protocols that tell readers what to expect. The market is a reflection of what the readers have been trained to expect.
question: Is there more cross-genre stuff out there, more mainstream that would have previously been speculative? Is it easier to find now?
L.E. Modesitt: I never worried about it. The criteria I operate with are Is it good? Does it sell?
question: Can you speculate on writers whose work gets better as they go on as opposed to those who become self-parody?
Joe Haldeman: Don't say anything bad about other authors in public; my motives might be in question. Chip Delaney is smart, and you have to be smart to read him, so his audience has narrowed over time.
Sarah Zettel: It's critical to maintain a degree of uncertainty about yourself and your work. When you're certain, you stop being able to take criticism, make relationships in the outside world.
Robert Heinlein's early stuff is brilliant, full of questions and variety. Then he got sure of himself and his stories rationed down in quality.
Holly Black: It's important to remember the joy of being a reader.
Joe Haldeman: Robert Heinlein's quality went down when he became a best seller; you can defend anything when you're making money.
If critics consistintly see something wrong with your work, that's what's right with it because that's where you depart from their expectations. (Gertrude Stein, as quoted by Hemingway, as quoted by Haldeman.)
question: What would you do if you won the lottery?
Joe Haldeman: Isolate myself on a desert island for as long as I could and write.
Sarah Zettel: Hire a good nanny (and maybe a bodyguard) and travel with child, nanny, etc.
L.E. Modesitt: Bank the money and keep doing what I'm doing.
Holly Black: Retreat to a place in Greece with a friend for a month to write a novel.
Naomi Kritzer: How do you know if you're improving? Are there useful measurements of quality?
Sarah Zettel: You stop having to pay attention to some things.
Joe Haldeman: Need to develop an input filter so don't listen to people saying you should be writing the same thing you did X years ago.
Sarah Zettel: Authors are like parrots--they're highly intelligent, have short attention spans, and will take things apart when your back is turned.
Naomi Kritzer: What about external feedback? Is it useful?
L.E. Modesitt: It can be. I'm not using as many sound effects now, or writing as much about food. You also learn how to and when to trust your subconscious.
Holly Black: A hand-picked group of readers helps--someone you can believe, someone you trust to tell you it sucks or is good.
Joe Haldeman: I don't ask my wife for criticism, but I do ask her for input. When I stop, I'll ask her, but what I write is mine. Nine times out of ten, I end up telling her why her idea won't work. The only input I care about is from the editor. "If you're a serious writer, you write for yourself."
L.E. Modesitt: No one sees what I've written before Dave Hartwell (my editor), except for parts with music, which my wife looks at. Editors are great at seeing symptoms but not so good at cause. If they say there's a problem, there is, but it may not be what the editor thinks it is.
Sarah Zettel: Have to find what works for you as an author. I've been part of a writer's group since 1994.
L.E. Modesitt: Thing to remember about critics as that their criticism reflects more of them than of you.
Joe Haldeman: For a beginning writer, any criticism leads to the feeling "Oh my god, I'm a failure!" After a couple of years, criticism tends to lead to feeling "What an asshole!"
Naomi Kritzer: I find crit group feedback to be terribly helpful, but I can't stand feedback after something's in print.
(At this point, some discussion of solitary writers versus those who prefer crit groups and whether this is a generational difference. Older writers--at least from this given sample--are more likely to be solitary.)
Naomi Kritzer: I used to have a writers' book addiction. I was looking for the magic key, and found many books that say there is one true way.
Holly Black: Writers' porn.
Joe Haldeman: Some writers can't read their own work; some do it compulsively.
Holly Black: I'm afraid to read my own work; don't want to see what it is.
Naomi Kritzer: By the end, everything sucks.
Sarah Zettel: I have to get it away because I can't deal with it anymore.
Joe Haldeman: Sooner or later, you have to set it free.
Naomi Kritzer: Is there an area where you're stretching yourself now?
L.E. Modesitt: I ask what I can do that's different, that I haven't done before, that isn't familiar to me or the readers.
Joe Haldeman: You don't want to take the path of least resistance and satirize yourself.
L.E. Modesitt: It's a problem if you get to be known for something with only some idea (love story, man learns something, James Bond/mindless adventure). You have to be careful and work harder each time to do it differently.
Sarah Zettel: I'm researching new areas, new ways, working on areas I know next to nothing about.
audience question: Do you have any problem keeping your characters fresh?
Joe Haldeman: Characters generate the story. I don't use plot or theme. I use the same templates occasionally because my characters are somewhat autobiographical, as with most writers.
L.E. Modesitt: They always have a certain amount of determination, intelligence, persistence--what do you do beyond the basics?
Sarah Zettel: Characters need to be true to the environment they're set in. They'll be changed to be true te tho character, universe, story--they have to be different.
Joe Haldeman: A character doesn't have to be a hero, positive, to come out ahead. The character just has to be interesting enough to make the reader keep turning the pages until they get to the end--and then you've won.
Holly Black: The more comfortable we are with things as authors, the more we want to play with them, poke them, prod them. Sometimes, you may do something that's not in line with your readers.
Sarah Zettel: First you learn shading, lighting, brushstrokes on canvas--sublimated, now free to work with the subtler aspects. Sheer experience is one way to get better.
I never know what's coming next. Ideas are garnered from everywhere. When it comes, the idea will tell me how it needs to be written, and sometimes I don't feel up to it.
Joe Haldeman: Fitzgerald and Hemingway decided to become serious writers and went bankrupt.
L.E. Modesitt: I started out as a poet, then moved to SF for 20 years. So, yes, you can change.
question: Have you ever broken rules and decided "oh, it's there for a reason"?
L.E. Modesitt: The Spellsong series. It sold really well in romance, but in romance novel, you don't have an unhappy break.
Joe Haldeman: Every genre has a set of reading protocols that tell readers what to expect. The market is a reflection of what the readers have been trained to expect.
question: Is there more cross-genre stuff out there, more mainstream that would have previously been speculative? Is it easier to find now?
L.E. Modesitt: I never worried about it. The criteria I operate with are Is it good? Does it sell?
question: Can you speculate on writers whose work gets better as they go on as opposed to those who become self-parody?
Joe Haldeman: Don't say anything bad about other authors in public; my motives might be in question. Chip Delaney is smart, and you have to be smart to read him, so his audience has narrowed over time.
Sarah Zettel: It's critical to maintain a degree of uncertainty about yourself and your work. When you're certain, you stop being able to take criticism, make relationships in the outside world.
Robert Heinlein's early stuff is brilliant, full of questions and variety. Then he got sure of himself and his stories rationed down in quality.
Holly Black: It's important to remember the joy of being a reader.
Joe Haldeman: Robert Heinlein's quality went down when he became a best seller; you can defend anything when you're making money.
If critics consistintly see something wrong with your work, that's what's right with it because that's where you depart from their expectations. (Gertrude Stein, as quoted by Hemingway, as quoted by Haldeman.)
question: What would you do if you won the lottery?
Joe Haldeman: Isolate myself on a desert island for as long as I could and write.
Sarah Zettel: Hire a good nanny (and maybe a bodyguard) and travel with child, nanny, etc.
L.E. Modesitt: Bank the money and keep doing what I'm doing.
Holly Black: Retreat to a place in Greece with a friend for a month to write a novel.
