Monday morning blues

[eimarra]

I'm in the doldrums today. Just got a crit back, with some good catches and a lot of good feedback. I'm just frustrated because I feel I miss so much on my own. I've seen authors post on FM to the effect that using crits excessively is depending on a crutch -- a real writer needs to be able to edit her work into shape because she won't always have the luxury of sending something off to beta readers who will take their time with it.

And I'm worried because I know I'm nowhere near that level. I keep thinking I'm getting better at this -- everything from the mechanics of varying sentence length and rhythm to having more than the obvious layer in the story. But then I find out I'm still failing on so many levels.

My number one problem? I think I've made the protagonist's motive clear, or think that the root cause of the MC's behavior isn't important to have down in so many words. But even when I think I've spelled it out from the beginning of the story, my readers tell me they don't understand why X does Y.

I can't imagine giving up writing, but right now, at this moment, I'm really wondering if I'll ever be good enough.

(/end feeling sorry for myself)

Comments

[slobbit.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know how long you've been writing. But I know, from my short experience, I didn't learn it overnight. It seems like I learned to recognize one flaw -- telling, perhaps -- and excised it from the work, then learned about another -- say, slipping POV.

We're writers. We always need someone to *read*, or we collapse under our own weight. But as for crits . . . well, I think they're always useful because you need to see what other people are getting out of it. My mind always fills in subconscious details I already know about the story, so I'm not always sure exactly what I'm getting across. The closest I can get to rereading something fresh is if I set it aside (was it Kipling who said, one month for a short, one year for a novel?). Still, the passages trigger the movie in my head and I can't read the words independent of my indwelling concept.

The key, I think, is not having to rely on critters to supply all your deficiencies. It doesn't sound like you're at that point, in fact it sounds like you are making progress according to your own yardstick.

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

And then of course a good story is more than just one that doesn't have mistakes. It has to do all the positive things too. I doubt if there's any such thing as a story that can't be made better -- more insightful, more intriguing, with more insight into character, a more layered conflict, a more complex climax, a more meaningful resolution. You get into themes and mirror plots and mirror characters. You get into discussions about the nuances of words, and whether the grammatica construct is undermining your meaning. On and on. You never get so good you can stop.

--bonnie

[eimarra]

Thanks. Part of me really is afraid that I rely too much on my critters. I think, though, (when I'm being calm and rational) that it's because I am improving. I see new things wrong with my work that I didn't notice before. I see old mistakes more clearly and get frustrated because I haven't grown beyond them yet.

Writing, I think, is an uphill struggle. Only it's worse. If you're going uphill, even if you're climbing Everest, there's a point when you reach the top. With writing, there's always room for improvement.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who fills in the blanks when reading my own stories.

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

I have a whole bunch of things to say here, and none of them seems to come out write. I mean right. But I'll try anyway.

I've done the excessive crits thing. It sneaks up on you while you're worried about something else. The question is, who's in charge? Are you asking your critters to make decisions for you? Are you always going around wanting to know what somebody else thinks, and changing it to match their expectations, or are you listening, thinking, and deciding what you want to do about it? I have a friend who does that and she drives me crazy. Every time anybody says anything about her work, off she goes to rewrite. And she's a published romance author. That's excessive.

Actually, I wish I had started with something else. I wish I had started by saying I've been a software technical writer for more than 25 years, and I would not dream of sending anything out without a review. That's just asking to get slaughtered. And I don't see why fiction should be any different.

I'm going to post this now before I change my mind again.

--bonnie

[slobbit.livejournal.com]

Bonnie,
I think you need to tighten up your POV in this piece. It's got a very head-hopping feel . . .

*grin*

Go ahead and slap me now.

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

I suppose I asked for that :)

--bonnie

[eimarra]

I don't think I'm trying to rewrite my story to suit everyone else. As I said above, it's mostly frustration that I'm not getting better yet. I'm a plot-driven writer. You might have noticed with Diamond -- most of the weaknesses were with the characters, who they were, why they were acting as they were. I knew them, knew what they did, and what happened next, but showing who they are is tough. And that's true of most everything I write -- showing why people do things is a weakness, and one that just won't go away. So I edit and revise and rewrite and get crits that still show me weak and edit more, and I was just feeling really down about it yesterday.

Little better today, but I still have that "I should've gotten this by now" feeling going on.

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I don't think you're doing that, either. My point was that unless you're getting to that point (you're the only one who can judge), good critters are not just helpful, they're critical to producing a good story.

I hear you about the part of writing that just won't improve. I now recognize plot when I see it, though it has only a tangential relationship to what my characters are doing. (Joey looks up innocently. "Oh. You mean this story is supposed to be, like, going somewhere?") I've been working hard on it for close to ten years now.

And I wouldn't say your characters are weak, either. It's because they are good that a critter can see ways to make them better, clearer, more motivated, more conflicted. If you look at some of the stuff that gets posted in Roving, you'll see what I mean.

--bonnie

p.s. and weak characters can be fixed. If you don't have a plot to begin with, it's a lot harder to add it in. But I'm getting there.

[eimarra]

I thought Joey's story was going somewhere -- to the end of his life, eventually. Or you mean as in having plot arcs and conflicts that get resolved (or deepened) along the way?

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

I meant the plot arcs and conflicts and stuff. Joey does have a sort of framework like that, but it keeps getting lost in a tangle of everyday relationships and just general stuff.

It's like you pointed out with "City, in the Mist" -- I tend to have conflict, then resolution, but never a climax.

--bonnie

[touch-of-ink.livejournal.com]

Pick someone you think is a "real writer". I'll pick Steven King. Steven King relies on crits before sending his work out into the world, and lets face it, he can get anything he wants printed. Someone (anyone) who tells you that you shouldn't rely on crits, is (IMO) telling you more about themselves than they are giving you good advice.

I much prefer the FM credo of "There is no one Right Way".

[eimarra]

Thanks. I forgot about the whole "no one Right Way." (slapping my forehead) I don't know how I let that slip my mind. I know it's true for outlines and plot-driven vs. character-driven and linear vs. non-linear writing, and it never occurred to me that it was true for the use of crits.

Thank you!

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

Amy Tan is another one. And I certainly wouldn't complain if somebody told me my work was like hers :)

Ooops, there I go again, starting a sentence with a conjunction. Until that FMer posted that question, I didn't realize how often I do it.

--bonnie

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

Ooops, there I go again, starting a sentence with a conjunction.

It's perfectly acceptable in fiction and informal writing. And you can tell them I said so.

*g*

As for crits... I know very few (I might even say no) writers who don't use any critique as all. Generally, as one gets better at this thing, one gets a better idea of what one needs from a critter, and starts cherrypicking people whose natural style covers your weaknesses.

But almost none of us really have a clear idea of what works or doesn't work in our writing until somebody else has a look at it.

[bonniers.livejournal.com]

Thanks :) I'm quite amused to discover that the starting-conjunction habit is a personal cliche of mine. I found one recent post where I started one out of every three sentences with and, but, or or. Colloquial is one thing, but that's excessive.

I like your sign, by the way.

--bonnie

[eimarra]

At least I've identified one of the major areas I'm still weak (showing motivation), and I do know critters who help me with that. So that's a step toward cherrypicking.

But almost none of us really have a clear idea of what works or doesn't work in our writing until somebody else has a look at it.

Oh. It's not just me. *great big grin* Wow! Thanks for saying that. I know I've heard it before, but sometimes just hearing something at the right time makes a big difference.